Interview with
Mary Timony

Singer/guitarist Mary Timony (formerly of Helium and Autoclave) explains her jump from Boston to D.C., and talks about a new focus on guitar for her upcoming record.

By Sean O'Neal

Mary Timony is celebrating her fifteenth year as a recording artist. Celebrating may not be the right word, though, as Timony is as humble a rock star as they come. Despite having spent more than a decade as an indie icon, from her early days in the influential all-girl band Autoclave to fronting Matador favorites Helium and now, in her new life as the Mary Timony Band, Timony remains a sweetly genuine person who gently rejects any notion that she is anything but a hard working musician.

After an exhausting Austin show on the first leg of her tour with Pinback, she spoke with CITIZINE about life with new group members Devin Ocampo and Chad Molter, her beginnings and current part in the DC music scene, getting signed to Kill Rock Stars, and -- for the first time -- the end of Helium.

My questions are in bold; her answers are in plain text.

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You're on tour (again) with two boys in a van. How's that going?
It's fine! I mean, Devin's my boyfriend so that makes it easy, I guess, and Chad's his best friend from high school, so we're all pretty close.
You said you were handling this tour yourself; is that a hassle or does the totality of control make it worth it?
It's financially the only way to go. [laughs] We don't make that much money so of course I'm going to deal with everything myself.
How did you get hooked up with Pinback for this tour?
You know, I don't really know. We just got offered this tour. I guess Rob mentioned to his agent he wanted us. We have the same booking agent, so…
So you hadn't really met them before?
I do know Rob because we both were involved in that bizarre Team Sleep thing. Which was really odd, but anyway, we kind of met through that.
What do you do on tour during those long hours in the van to keep yourself from going insane?
Look out the window and read, or drive.
What are you reading?
I'm reading this book about this woman Margaret Fontaine, who collected butterflies in the 1800s. It's really great. It's very interesting actually. She just wandered around Europe -- she had an inheritance and she used it to wander around, collecting butterflies.
So, you've played with several different drummers as a solo artist, but you seem to be somewhat settled in with Devin now.
Yeah.
Tell me a little bit about that. I mean, I know he's your boyfriend --
[laughs]
So how did it all come to be, how did it get started?
Well, I met him through a mutual friend, Amy Dominguez, who used to play cello in the band at one point, and he actually just started to play on the last record. He did start playing in the band before we started dating. He's just a really good musician, so I kind of feel like I found a good match, I guess.
Is it the best match you've had so far?
For drums, yeah.
You've finally left Boston and moved home to D.C., is that right?
Mm-hmm.
You went to B.U. there and seemed to stay put for a long time. How do you feel about Boston?
I really loved J.P. I lived in J.P.
That's Jamaica Plain.
Yeah. My last four or five years in Boston were probably my favorite. But the Boston music scene really sucks. I just never felt … I mean, I feel so good in D.C. in terms of the music community there. It's so supportive, and there's such an amazing network of musicians. Whereas Boston, there's people I really respect there artistically, but there's just no support in that town. I don't know why that is. Bands are really competitive with each other and there's no feeling of community. D.C.'s just a much more nurturing place, musically.
You attended the Duke Ellington School of the Arts in D.C when you were young. What was that like?
I only went there for two years. I went there for eleventh and twelfth grade, and basically half of the day was regular classes and half of the day was music classes. We studied, like, jazz guitar.
Did your parents have an influence over you going to that school?
Noooo. [laughs] Actually, my mom probably suggested it.
Were your parents musically inclined?
No, no, no. They're not like that. My brother and I got into music, so my mom did suggest that I go to that school. So maybe, yeah, they did have something to do with it.
You received a degree in English from B.U. I also have an English degree. Is there anything someone can do with an English degree besides be in a rock band?
[laughs] I don't know! Be a writer?
How much of an influence do you think your education has had on your lyrics and wordplay?
I don't know. I've gotten to a point now where I'm in a phase where I don't want lyrics to mean anything. But I'm sure it had a really big influence on my lyrics, actually. My lyrics probably would have really, really sucked if I hadn't read good literature in college. But I'm much more of a musician than a poet. I just feel much more confident about my musical abilities.
Who were some of your favorite writers?
[laughs] Oh, I don't know. It all sounds so pompous!
Well, anyone with an English degree…
Can't help but sound pompous?
Yes.
Oh no no, not you! But --
No, it's okay. But I mean, anytime anyone with an English degree starts talking about writing, they all sound pompous.
I know! Okay …well, I was really into the old stuff like Dante. T.S. Eliot. Stuff. I'm not sure.
You've been referred to as obsessed with prog-rock and ren-fair mysticism, and you've also somewhat decried that. What do you think it is that people are picking up on when they say that?
The imagery in the lyrics. I just use a lot of metaphors, in the past even more so than now. And apparently people don't really understand what a metaphor is. A lot of reviewers who write about them -- especially on a couple of the records that I did -- people think that I'm literally talking about animals, but really it's metaphors.
So if you're not a "ren-fair mystic," how do you see yourself?
[laughs] I don't know ... I'm a human. I have no idea. I'm just doing what I do. Trying to be enthusiastic about what I do.
Are you into the supernatural at all? Astrology or psychics or anything like that?
No, not really. I guess I believe in astrology a little just for fun. I don't take it seriously.
You've also been labeled the "indie rock Nico."
[laughs] Really? I've never read that.
Well, it's out there. I read it. Another thing is the word "chanteuse" comes up a lot.
I could see that, from a couple of the records. One thing is that I will go through these style phases. I think it's confusing in some ways to some people. Somehow people like bands to be really consistent. [laughs] But I always, like, completely change what I want to do. Definitely Mountains and Golden Dove are more in that vein. I don't know, maybe I'm getting away from that now.
What kind of phase do you think you're in now?
I just really want to be a guitar player and play with really good musicians. Have a collective songwriting process more, as a band.
You've been on Matador, Lookout!, Dischord and now Kill Rock Stars. It seems like you've been on almost every indie label that matters in the last two decades. What was your experience like with each of those?
They're all different in terms of what their goals are. I'd say that Matador and Dischord are complete opposites. Dischord is more concerned with archiving a small community of musicians. Matador is a really commercial label that's trying to sell records. It's just a different approach. But everyone I've worked with is cool. And Lookout! was just for the last record. I'm really excited to be on Kill Rock Stars, actually. I feel like our music really fits on that label, and I'm pretty excited about it.
How did you get hooked up with Kill Rock Stars?
I'm not sure how I met Slim [Moon]. I guess just, bit by bit, over the years, it finally worked out.
How do you feel about Kill Rock Stars and their roster of artists? It seems like they particularly have a history of strong female artists, from Bikini Kill to Bratmobile to Sleater-Kinney and now you and Erase Errata have recently joined.
They do. I really like the bands on there. I'm really excited to be a part of it.
Did that have any impact on your decision to go with them?
Yeah. I feel like people do look to the label, to see what's going with Kill Rock Stars, and people that buy those records might buy our record. More so than people who buy Lookout! Records. [laughs]
Let's talk about Ex Hex. You put it out on Lookout! and broke away from Matador for that record. How did your relationship with Matador come to an end?
They dropped me.
Did they give you a reason?
I wasn't selling enough records.
They just flat out told you that?
Yeah. [laughs] That's what I mean about how they're more commercial.
Did they say that they wanted you to do something more specific that you didn't do?
No, just sell more records.
What did they want you to do to sell more records?
Nothing. I just didn't sell enough records so they didn't want to do any more records. But it makes sense, because they really signed Helium, they didn't sign me as a solo artist. They were just doing the solo records, just to see how it goes…
So you think when they put out your solo records they were expecting more of the same, but they just didn't get it?
I don't know. [laughs] I don't know what they were expecting.
You seem to have recovered by recording something more akin to what Matador may have wanted from you in the first place, which is a bit more of an abrasive record that's closer to Helium.
Yeah.
And you've said you felt like "kicking ass" on this record. Had you already felt that before the Matador split, or was that an intentional "fuck you," or was it just a coincidence?
I think it was just a coincidence. If anything, not being on Matador just made me reevaluate a lot of stuff. And really, not having a budget really influenced the record. I wasn't able to just go to a studio and do a lot of stuff on my own, you know? I had to really find the right people to work with. I think that really changed the record.
How much of it do you think was influenced by your immersion in the D.C. sound, working with Brendan from Fugazi and recording at Inner Ear and so on?
I don't know. I mean, Brendan's really awesome to work with, he gets really good sounds. And Devin's great to work with, he's a really great musician. So I don't know, it definitely influenced it. You could probably tell me as much as I could tell you. It's hard to be objective.
What was it like having grown up on Fugazi and the D.C. scene and now, at this stage in your career, to return to it?
It's good, it's good. I feel like growing up in D.C. was a good thing because you're surrounded by a lot of good people. And a lot of those people are still there and they still really get involved in the scene.
Do you involve Devin in the writing process?
Yeah. We've been doing that a lot. I have some things that are like half and half, but we're doing that even more. It's good. It's a big relief for me, actually, to have help. That's what I want to do now. I'm sick of trying to do it all on my own.
How important to you is presentation, such as the progressions or the variety of instrumentation versus the lyrics? Which comes first?
It's all important, I guess. But I usually have just a part of the lyrics and then work out all the other stuff, and then when I'm finishing the song, I'll work out the rest of the lyrics. I'll usually start with like, just one verse and the chorus.
What inspired you to go back to your guitar driven roots?
I got burnt out on playing keyboards. And I think Devin was a big influence on me wanting to go back to guitar. Also I've been teaching guitar, so I'm getting back into just being more of a player.
You've been giving private lessons?
Yeah, that actually has influenced me a lot too.
What kind of kids do you give private lessons to?
Anywhere from 6 years old to the oldest one's 16. I have 15 students.
Do you find that rewarding?
Yeah, it's awesome.
Can you tell me about the DADGAE tuning? You use that on a lot of your songs.
Yeah! [laughs] That's really good!
Well, don't credit me, I just read it on the Internet.
Wow, good research! [laughs]
Well, I read somewhere that you were the "lazy journalist's nightmare," so I wanted to be thorough. So do you still use that tuning?
Yes.
Does it have a lot of impact on your songwriting?
It's a big impact because I use that tuning almost all the time. Sometimes, I do change it around a little bit, but mostly I use it all the time.
Do you teach your students that?
No, I just teach the regular tuning.
What kind of stuff do you teach them? Do you teach them jazz guitar like you studied?
No, it depends on what they're into. We pick out songs that they like and we do some sight-reading.
So, what, a lot of Green Day type stuff?
[laughs] Some, yeah. There's songs that I absolutely hate. Of course, sometimes that's better for me because I'm going to end up hearing a song a million times, and sometimes it's better for me if I already hate it. [laughs] But, no, I've had to really lower my snobbiness about music.
A lot of the lyrics on Ex Hex seem to be more direct, such as "On the Floor" for example. Was this intentional? Have you abandoned metaphors for a while?
It's hard for me to say, because it's been a while since I've written a song. I guess I've tried a bit of a more direct approach with these songs. But, I think in metaphors, so the lyrics just come out that way. I'm not really sure. I know where I'm going, so I'm trying to not focus on the meaning of the songs as much. I'm getting more into just how the words sound. I'm trying not to worry about it.
Ex Hex seems to have its fair amount of Christian references.
Yeah, I don't know why. [laughs]
You haven't been converted or anything?
No! [laughs]
Did it have anything to do with your Catholic upbringing?
Maybe. I guess so. "Why do I have Jesus in my songs?" I'm not even sure. Maybe I feel kind of like Velvet Underground-ish lately?
Or Spacemen 3 or something?
Maybe, yeah. I like things that sound like maybe they shouldn't belong.
So, maybe it's just me, but the title at least "Return to Pirates" seems to be a subtle reference to Helium. Maybe I'm inferring that, because you used a lot of pirate references and imagery then.
No, I see what you're saying. That song actually was written a long time ago, around Mountains, but it didn't make it onto Mountains, and we recorded it for this record. That was like five years ago. I don't know, though, that's a good observation. I'm not sure what it means.
Do you mind talking a little bit about Helium?
No!
What was the change in the band like after Ash joined and was it for better or worse?
It was much better, much better.
So, in my research, and also as a Helium fan, I've never heard you publicly acknowledge that the band is over.
That's true. That's because we were never really sure.
So is it definitely over?
Yeah. I think so, yeah.
So, without going into too much personal detail can you tell me a little bit about how and why it ended?
Oh, we were just all burnt out, and once you do a band for a certain amount of time -- I think especially Ash and I were like, "What else can we do with our lives?" You know, being in a band's stressful, and we both just wanted to try other stuff. And he ended up moving across the country to California, and now he's living in North Carolina -- you know, normal stuff about why bands break up.
You've said you don't even think about Helium anymore; do you think there's any chance you'll ever go back and revisit those songs?
I don't think so. I could see it happening at some point, maybe, but I really don't think so. That would be too weird.
Do you ever think about working those songs into --
Into my solo stuff? I don't know. Maybe! That might be kind of fun. [laughs]
Do you find when people come see you solo, they sort of expect you to play Helium songs? Do they ever ask you to do so?
Once in a while, yeah.
And how does that make you feel?
It doesn't really happen enough for me to seriously consider it. I just usually say, "Oh no, sorry, we don't do that." [laughs]
Can you tell me about your beginnings in Autoclave? At the time did you have any musical aspirations or was it mostly about having fun?
It was mostly about playing shows in D.C., which was such an intense musical scene. Mostly just to play shows around town. It was actually really fun. I miss that band. It was weird, but it just worked really well. It was really collaborative.
Do you still keep in contact with those people?
Not really. I know Christina's having a baby, actually. She lives in L.A.
How did you go from your jazz music days to playing punk music?
I had friends who were playing music, and they mostly were people in bands, and I was taking music lessons too, and all of that sort of clashed together eventually.
Where there any groups or albums that came along that made you want to do it?
Just local D.C. stuff. Fugazi and so on. I used to go to a lot of shows. Ignition, I really liked Ignition. Gray Matter.
You played a member of the band Coochie Pop in the movie All Over Me, how'd that come about?
The director of the movie had seen us or heard us somewhere and just called me. That was when I was like 25. That was a long time ago.
What's it like to play a band member as opposed to actually be one?
It was literally, like, a two hour-long project, so I didn't get that involved in the movie.
How about when you did the Priceline commercials with William Shatner, how'd that happen?
I had a friend who directed those commercials who asked me to be in it. It was actually really good. I got paid a lot of money for it. [laughs]
Did you enjoy working with Shatner?
It was…really interesting. [laughs]
Did he ever ask you about your own work, or did he contact you about his collaborations album?
No. [laughs] I don't think he ever even talked to me.
You used to be lobbed a lot of "women in rock" questions. How did you feel being given the mantle of indie rock feminist?
I don't know. You know, I don't really feel that way, so I don't really want to talk about that.
Are those ideals still important to you or were they ever?
Yeah.
Do you feel like now, with half of the musical landscape controlled by women and the indie rock world made up of so many mixed-gender bands, that gender politics still play a role in modern music?
Well, there's still not as many women in music as men, and I don't really know why.
Do you still feel like there are certain expectations of girls in music today as to what music they can play, or instruments, or what they can sing about, or do you feel like those sorts of boundaries have been obliterated?
No. I don't know. I don't really have the answers. I do wish there were more women that played music.
Do you think you've had any sort of influence on breaking down those boundaries at all?
No. I don't think so. [laughs]
What are some of your favorite bands around today? Sorry, but this is like one of those "what's on your iPod" questions?
Well, I don't have an iPod. [laughs] Let's see, who do I really like? There's a band from D.C. called the Aquarium. You've probably never heard of them. They're gonna put out a record soon. They're really good. That's all I can think of right now.
You've said that while you were recording Ex Hex you were working for a toy inventor. Have you had a day job the whole time you've been playing music?
Yep. I'm a temp. I've been one for a long time.
Hey, that's what I do too.
You are? Exciting, right?
Did anybody ever recognize you on your temp assignments?
I don't know. [laughs] Probably not that much.
You never made any musical collaborations with people you met at your temp assignments?
[laughs] No, definitely not.
What do you think you would be doing for a living if you weren't playing music?
Being a guitar teacher. [laughs] That's what I do!
What do you do for fun when you're not doing music? What's your typical day like when you're not on tour?
I get up around 10 and then I don't have to start teaching until around 4, so I just do whatever I have to do, and then teach from 4 to 7 or 8. Then I hang out with friends or whatever.
So you still have a pretty active social life?
[laughs] Yeah! I guess so.
How do you feel about the way music is marketed today, with downloads replacing albums and mail-order purchases? Has it affected how you sell your music or do you even think or care about that?
I do care, I just don't have an answer. I don't know, I'm curious too. People don't buy CDs as much as they used to. I know that the kids I teach, they don't buy CDs. They just download, and a lot of them download illegally too. [laughs]
How do you feel about that as a musician?
Well, supposedly it helps you because then people come to your shows! [laughs] I think it's different. I've noticed with Pinback, like with bands like that, it's just different than it was 10 years ago. When I first started playing music, people were really into 7 inches, you know, putting out 7 inches and buying 7 inches, and then it was like onto records, and now it really is about finding stuff on the Internet more. I don't know, we'll see what happens.
You've been at this a long time, longer than most. So with all the many things you've been a part of in your career, what are you proudest of having done?
Oh my God -- .I don't have a lot of pride. [laughs] I'm not sure. I'm sorry.
Ever get nostalgic for the 1990's?
Yes! [laughs]
How so?
I guess I'm maybe nostalgic for rock music being this really new thing to me. Really I just miss a lot of the bands that were around then, the people doing music then. But bands are like people. They're born and then they die.

May 26, 2006.

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