Interview with Don Bolles of The Germs
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Have you found -- I've only been buying the -- I mean, I bought a couple that were just horrible, so I've mainly been buying the CD reissues of them, like the Keith Higney?
Kenneth Higney.
Oh, Kenneth Higney. God! That's amazing!
Yeah, it's great. I have that.
And the uhhh --
I have the original album.
You have the album?
Oh yeah. I have the actual album.
How much did that run ya?
Oh, nothing. I got it free.
Jeez!
My friend Paul Majors gave it to me. He's the guy that does Parallel World, another great label. And the Marlin Wallace and the Corillions thing, I wrote an article for a WFMU thing about Marlin Wallace.
Oh, I haven't heard that!
Yeah, I just did a show the other night, and --
Has it been reissued? Is it available?
It is available I think. It's available from this guy in Springfield, Missouri, because that's where Marlin Wallace is from.
Oh, okay. The other one I was thinking of was Tangela Tricoli. I got that.
Tangela Tricoli's great! Boyd Rice actually turned me on to that.
It's a good CD, and they put a bunch of extra video footage on it too.
Wow. Yeah, Boyd Rice and Steve Thompson turned me on to Tangela Tricoli. Yeah, "Jet Lady."
Yeah!
"Stinky Poodle."
"Stinky Poodle!" That's the best.
At our club, we play a lot of novelty-type songs. We play a lot of Bollywood stuff.
So you're part owner of a club, you're --
I'm not an owner. We promote it; we do a night at a club.
Oh, gotcha! Okay, gotcha. Gotcha. Where does most of your income come from these days?
Income? What's that?
Like royalties?
Oh yeah. I don't really get any money that much anymore. I don't know how I manage; I really don't have any money! I do alright. I've never lived a sort of life of luxury. I'm totally broke, but I can pretty much do exactly what I want, so I guess it's alright. I've really got no disappointment.
Is it true that someone's working on a Germs movie?
They were, until we put a stop to it.
Oh. Why?
It was HORRIBLE! We read the script -- unfucking-believable. However, because of the movie, a Germs reunion happened.
Really!?
Yeah. Yeah, it was really good.
With Lorna and everything?
Yep.
Who'd you have singing?
This actor named Shane West. We had a whole fake Germs, like early Germs -- all the actors that were going to play The Germs in the movie. And we talked to them; we were working sort of with the people that were doing this. I mean, we knew them. One of them was this girl that Darby used to get rides from all the way time and she thought she was best friends with him.
Was that someone in the book? Like Casey or somebody?
Michelle Ghaffari.
Oh, the one in the movie? "The Decline"?
She was in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, okay. That was another great -- that was in your book, right? You mention that they weren't actually -- they didn't actually live there or -- He just wanted a woman in there so he wouldn't look gay?
She was his beard.
Wow.
Yeah.
Why was he so afraid to be gay?
It wasn't really cool! Unless you were like in a John Waters movie, you know? I mean even today, our president -- our leader Bushypants -- isn't into it.
God, isn't he the best?
Well, yeah! You couldn't ask for a better, you know, fascist dictator. You really couldn't. I think Goebbels would be fuckin' taking notes.
Is he worse than Reagan? I was pretty young during Reagan.
Yeah.
Wow.
Definitely worse than Reagan. Worse than anything. He's worse than anything that anyone that's American could imagine. He's worse than anyone that -- he's worse than a lot of people certainly. There's a real lucky thing about him though is that he's not an orator. So we don't have to, you know -- that's one thing Hitler had going on that -- So be thankful for that, I suppose. It would be worse if that were the case.
It must be nice to be John Kerry, riding in on the coattails of just not being George Bush.
Right! And we'll see all the good it does him too. It won't do him a whole lot of good.
You don't think he'll win?
Nah, I think it doesn't matter who wins, as was demonstrated last election.
Oh, you're -- Oh God. You know, I'm worried about that too, especially with all these voting machines.
Oh, you can quit worrying! It's pretty much certain.
What'd you say?
You can quit worrying and start thinking of it as a certainty.
Why can't they do anything?
Because there's no way. Because no one will do what it takes to get him out of there. What it probably takes is not voting, because we saw what happens when people vote against him -- nothing. He won, even though he lost.
But the thing is -- no one's gonna impeach him and no one's gonna kill him because then Cheney's gonna be in charge.
Right. So we're pretty much -- they really worked it all out pretty well, I think. So who knows what's really gonna happen. It's something I'd like to look ahead and see the history books about, you know?
What'd you think when the 9/11 attack happened?
I thought that Stockhausen had something pretty right on to say about it. He kinda got in trouble.
What'd he say?
He said it was one of the most incredible art performances that's ever occurred.
That's interesting.
Well, it was effective certainly.
Yeah.
It certainly made a lot of people notice it, and it made a lot of people think a lot of things. It changed a lot of things. It really did. But I don't know -- I think of 9/11 as sort of an elaborate Reichstag burning.
You know, that's -- Yeah. You think they let it happen?
Let it happen?
Made it happen.
Pretty much, yeah. And if they didn't make it happen, I think that that was the one thing that I think they were extremely opportunistic and they really milked it.
For a long time, I was really hot on the idea that they knew it was gonna happen, they let it happen, they helped it happen, and then I was talking to a friend and he said, "They're not that smart."
Yeah.
They probably just screwed up, because they're not -- That doesn't mean they WOULDN'T have let it happen.
They are that evil; they're just not necessarily that together and smart.
Yeah, I'm in New York so I was pretty messed up.
Yeah, yeah. Well, my friends Kim and Thurston from Sonic Youth were right by there when it happened. They were on Houston Street or something. Yeah, pretty weird. I would have liked to have been in New York on Houston Street when Tesla was doing those experiments.
I haven't read about him. I mean, I know he was like the other Edison, but --
No, he was the Edison that wasn't -- Edison was kinda, he was great and all, but he hasn't really done -- if it wasn't for Tesla, things would be a whole lot different than they are now.
What kinda stuff?
Electricity-wise.
Really?
Tesla wanted there to be free electricity for everyone, with these generators that would make electricity just sort of be in the air and let you tap into it. But there was no way to regulate it.
Like the Internet now!
Except without the wires.
Wow. That would have been cool.
The Internet still has --
So now what do we know about Tesla? What do I know? I know the song "Little Suzie."
Yeah, well you have to read about Tesla. There's a good biography about Tesla by his best friend. You might want to read that. I forgot the guy's name. I reviewed it in the Amok publishing catalog. I did a lot of those reviews in there. I've done a lot of writing.
What other stuff do you write for?
I wrote for Ben Is Dead for a long time, 'cuz that girl Darby [Romeo] was a friend of mine.
What's her name?
Her name was Darby.
Oh, okay. You know, I've seen the Ben Is Dead zine. I remember seeing it at a friend's house. I don't remember if I --
I wrote some really great stuff in those. You know Miss Pussycat?
Yeah.
She and I reworked all these riddles -- these horrible riddles from Children's Highlights -- and replaced all the punch lines. Just traded out all the punch lines with each other and made the riddles totally better.
Somebody e-mailed me today and I can't figure this out. They wrote -- I have a web site where I review albums and interview people and stuff -- and someone e-mailed me saying, "When does a superstitious cowboy throw his hat on the bed?" And I wrote back, "I don't know what you're talking about." Then the person said, "It's a fuckin' question! Do you know it or not?" And I said, "Look! I have no idea what you're talking about!" And I still don't know whether it's a riddle or whether they're referring to something. Have you ever heard of that? A superstitious cowboy throwing his hat on the bed?
No.
Me neither. It's gonna torture me for days now.
Hmm. Well, it's probably some kind of dumbass riddle. I don't know. I wish I remembered all the riddles from that Ben Is Dead. It was good.
What do you think about -- going back way to the beginning -- that "Decline" movie?
Well, the first thing I remember is seeing the little butterfly things over my crib.
Mm-hmm? No, you can't remember that far back. Because your brain wasn't developed enough.
Yeah, it was.
You remember the butterfly things over your crib?
Yeah, I remember being born, I think. I might even remember stuff before that too. I remember all that stuff. I mean, not all the time but you know....
You're serious? You remember -- you're serious!? I know what my earliest memory is. I was in a crib; I think I was about two or three --
It wasn't even a crib. It was like some fucking stand.
A fuckin' what?
It was the thing that's littler than a crib that you're in, you know?
Oh okay, yeah. What was growing up in Arizona like? What made you --
Well, a little boring and suburban.
What's that?
It was suburban and boring and weird.
Did you hang out with the Sun City Girls?
No, that was later. That was like right when I moved when they were starting together.
Oh, okay. Did you hang out with John Doe?
But I knew the Sun City Girls. They were my friends. I liked them definitely. John Doe and the X people would pretty much hang out with each other and a few other people. I liked him as a guy, but there was no hanging out to be done with them.
Who'd you hang out with? Did you hang out with --
We were young! Those guys were old. They were like everyone's big brothers and sisters or something. They weren't our age. I was the oldest person in the Germs, and I had just turned 21.
Wow! I didn't know that. Man.
I was the old man of the group.
Were you guys friends as well as a band?
Yeah!
Why did he [Darby] want to throw you out for Rob Henley? Just because he was --
Well, because he'd go a little nutso. Your guess is as good as mine; I mean, you read the book. I suspect that he felt a little threatened by someone who was -- I don't know what you know about Darby Crash, but he hadn't really run into too many people that were -- not to toot my own horn; I'm not the one who figured this out, by the way, but I do think it contains some truth. He hadn't run into too many people that could keep up with him. His thinking could be kinda pedestrian in a lot of ways, but in other ways he was the most brilliant person you could ever meet. In fact, you might not want to meet him, he was so brilliant.
Really? Even when he was like 20?
Oh, he was brilliant all the way through. Sure. He was way too smart for his own good. Some bands you just get a sense of, even if it's horrible, horrible music, you just get a sense of "This is fuckin' brilliant, even in its ultimate retardedness." You'd get a sense of that even without them saying -- I had no idea what was going on here with The Germs. I had no idea that there was a cult around Darby Crash that was forming. "Forming!" There's that word!
Hey! You know why? Because you were the sex boy!
Yeah!
Yeah.
I guess. Well, the Screamers did that song more than the Germs did.
Really?
Yeah. I think the Germs didn't really need that song after that show where it was recorded.
Ha! Did you contribute to the songwriting?
To some degree. Every musician in the band does when you're making stuff up in the garage. Everyone playing contributes to it. The guy sitting there making weird comments in the corner of the garage probably contributes to it. Your mom yelling at you contributes to it, you know?
      I made up the drum parts, most of 'em. The ones I didn't make up, I didn't play 'em as well. So the ones I totally made up, I played those really well, because they were drum parts that I could play! I wasn't really a drummer. I was just a kinda weird guy. I couldn't play drums all that well. I'd just started playing drums. I had a drum set when I was 14, but that only lasted a couple of weeks before I destroyed it. They bought me another one; I destroyed that. And then... no more drums. I gave up and I didn't look back until later on when this other band in Phoenix -- the only punk band I wasn't in -- started being a band and really needed a drummer. So I borrowed some drums and tried out.
Even to this day, when you type in the name "Don Bolles" into Yahoo!, it brings up the other guy.
There's another one now too.
Really!?
Yep, in San Francisco. It's spelled the same way too.
Why'd you take that guy's name?
Oh, it was on the front page. It's funny; I just went through this with someone else today.
Aren't you proud of your given name [Jimmy Giorsetti] though?
It's all right. I mean, it was a dumb name.....
(silence)
I lost you. Are you there?
Huh?
Okay. Hey!
Hi.
So do you like remember like when Pat came in and said "Ehh..." and started playing like "Richie Dagger's Crime" for the first time, and -- I mean these riffs are just amazing riffs!
Yeah. Yeah, I do.
Were you blown away?
I liked their songs. I knew I had done the right thing. When I called 'em up, they captivated me and they were really fun and funny and strange and brilliant and unlike anyone I knew except them. They were amazing and brilliant and weird, you know? So I knew that I was probably doing the right thing.
      Then when I came here, I saw them play and I thought they were alright. They were playing with Nicky Beat that night; he was the drummer of the Weirdos. The band didn't have a drummer, which is why I was coming out here to join the band. But I saw them play and I thought it was pretty good. It was at the Elk Lodge Masque Benefit the day I moved here. And then while I was in the elevator, all these other bands tried to -- they heard that there was a drummer coming in from Phoenix and there was a total drummer shortage because, well, it's punk rock, you know? You didn't have to be in the background.
       Even if you didn't even know how to play anything, you could be right there being a star right in front of everyone. You could sing, bang out some chords on the guitar and prance around in your spiky hair and your leather jacket, and you were punk! It was great. Whatever it was. But nobody wanted to be the drummer. I did though. I didn't want to get loogied on.
You didn't wanna get what?
I didn't want to get loogied.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Believe it or not, that was a major concern of mine!
I can believe it. Like I said, aside from the records, the only vision I have of that whole scene was that movie, "The Decline of Western Civilization" and EVERYONE got spit on.
That wasn't like anything.
Oh, was that a bad movie?
Well, no, I guess it was an all right movie, but it was pretty contrived and inaccurate in certain ways. Penelope really didn't try to get it right, but -- you know, the Germs show obviously because we couldn't play anywhere. So she had to get this place with a soundstage to let us play there. We made a fake show and somehow got everyone there. It didn't take much; it was a Germs show. Everywhere we'd go, the place would be packed. It was the biggest band in L.A., and was the first of the three that I was lucky enough to be in. .45 Grave was big too, but that came along afterwards. And Vox Pop was big in a different way.
Was Vox Pop a, a -- I've never heard Vox Pop.
Vox Pop was a big band in that there were like seven people in it, and one of them was kinda fat. So it was big that way, but really we couldn't pay people to go to our shows. People did not wanna go see someone being like Flipper-meets-Runaways-and-Faust.
How come?
It was pretty random. Everyone wanted punk! We were, of course being the rebels that we were, we were all rebelling against our rebellion even. That's all we DID was rebel! We'd rebel against the rebels. We'd rebel against ourselves basically. Whatever, we were rebelling against it.
You remind me of that guy in the movie -- "I'm a rebel."
Yeah.
"I rebel against everything."
It was kinda true, except that was reactionary. We weren't reactionary; we were just ahead for some reason, and bored with everything by the time everyone else found out about it. We'd get this reputation of being jaded or contrarian, but I really wasn't concerned about being punk. It was like, "I'm done with that thing that you're just now finding out about. I'm not gonna sit there and wait for you."
Between the years of .45 Grave and writing the book, what were your main pursuits? I know you started the TV show.
Yeah. After .45 Grave, I did a lot of radio.
Oh, okay. The pirate radio station?
I was on a lot of different pirate stations and legitimate stations and Internet stations. I actually had a real radio job in '91, actually run by the guy Freddy, who had the pirate station. The guy who owned KROQ sold it for a then record amount of money. A huge amount of money. And he wanted to do another station, and Freddy was at that point a reporter for KROQ for this guy, and he was picked to be the program director. And he got me because he knew that I did really weird stuff on KDIL in Phoenix. So he wanted me to do a weird show on Saturday nights. I called it "The All Night Truck Drivers Show," and I played whatever the fuck I wanted on major market commercial radio. It was a good time.
       Back then what I was really getting into -- we were the first station to play techno or industrial. We were also the first to play Nirvana. So we were a little bit too radical for the ability of our signal to get us to enough of Los Angeles to make it work. And we had a sales department that were more interested in selling Gold Bond Medicated Powder and Hooked On Phonics and stuff. And Cadillac dealer ads. Because they worked for the station that the station used to be before the cool people got it. So that sort of sabotaged us, and then they fired the whole programming department a couple years later. We all got locked out.
Huh! So I guess the station sucks now?
Oh, it's been through a million different things. Now it's not that bad. Steve Jones is on it.
Oh really? The Sex Pistols guy?
You know, maybe Steve Jones is a brilliant genius in some way or another, but you sure wouldn't know it from listening to him on the radio. Or to hang out with him.
I never got the impression he was a -- I like the songs, but --
He was a really good guitar player though for that Sex Pistols-type stuff. I mean, it was effortless for him. I tell ya, the Sex Pistols album that really kicked everything's ass was what later came out as the bootleg "Spunk."
What's it called?
"Spunk."
Hmm! Never heard it. I have --
It was the Sex Pistols album, but with Glen Matlock.
Really!?
And it's WAY better. You oughta listen to it some time. It kicks ass.
"Spunk"? S-P-U-N-K?
S-P-U-N-K. Get that bootleg disc. It's the way the Sex Pistols' album should have been.
How is it different?
It's just better.
I really like the way it is!
Whatever. You're not gonna like it anymore, so maybe you SHOULDN'T get "Spunk."
No, I would like to hear it. I would like to hear it and I'll tell you why: because of how much I loved that remix, the remaster of "Raw Power."
You know what's funny? Did I mention I just played the other day? Drums. You asked if I'd been playing drums. I'm in this band called The Raw Power Rangers. And we do the "Raw Power" album! Plus "I Got A Right" and "Gimme Some Skin."
Those are so great. Those are like almost hardcore!
Well, they uhh... umm, yeah.
Aren't they?
Well, it didn't exist then, until --
They're pretty fast and tough though, even before The Ramones.
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It was faster and tougher than The Ramones. That was like Germs level fast tough. It really was. "I Got A Right" was probably one of my major inspirations for punk rock. I played that record everyday. You know, up until that record came out -- the Siamese version, the single -- all I had were the three Stooges albums. I mean, the three albums by The Stooges.
I know what you -- ha! That Moe is a card, isn't he?
Ah, he was. Every day when I got up, I'd play all three of those albums before I could leave the house, just so I wouldn't be so pissed off that I'd kick things and hurt myself walking down the street.
God, it must have been pretty cool to live through all this. I wasn't born until '73, so it's all --
Right. You probably missed a lot.
I missed all of it! I mean, it's exciting for me to say, "Oh, I saw Nirvana before da-da-da-da-da," you know?
I saw Black Sabbath on the "Paranoid" tour.
Exactly!
Ha!
Damn! Wow.
That's the good thing about being old. You got to hear all the hip music and you got to see some pretty great stuff that other people don't get to see because, well, it just doesn't happen very often.
We weren't born.
Although I didn't get to see the "Fun House"-era Stooges! I still haven't gotten to see that, even though that's what's going around now. That's the reason we do the "Raw Power" album; it's because they don't.
It's a great album. But you know, the original mix really did kind of annoy me. It was a little too tinny.
Yeah. We do it pretty good though.
Who else is in the band? Anyone who's --
No.
Oh, okay.
Dave Arnson from the Insect Surfers does his Iggy. He's the Igster. He's amazing. He's doing something right. He's rolling in broken glass and covering himself with peanut butter, and he out-Iggys pretty much anybody.
So as somebody who's obviously into -- you must have a huge record collection, I guess?
Hardly any rock records though.
Okay, but as someone who's obviously into tons of different music and has listened to it forever and followed it forever, how does it feel knowing that you were, in all truthfulness, the drummer on one of the ultimate punk rock records of all time?
I don't know. I feel like I wish it was a better record, even though I know it's --
WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT!?
Well, nothing you'd notice.
Yeah?
I don't hear it anymore, but back then it was a real cringer for me. I mean, think about it. I'd been playing drums for about nine months, you know? I wasn't very good, although my aesthetics were certainly in the right place. It was an Olympian feat playing the Germs shows. I couldn't have done it. I was asthmatic! I was a little asthmatic skinny guy. But I had a lot of energy. And I couldn't have done that, because I was playing all wrong. I did not know how to play, and I expended about three or four times as much energy as anyone ever should. I used to use my entire arms, instead of like -- Real drummers use their wrists; I used my whole fuckin' arm. It was like I was doing an Olympic fuckin' decathlon every song.
       It was just crazy. I'd barf. I wouldn't be on any drugs and frankly couldn't drink alcohol -- this was the day of the show so I couldn't drink any alcohol, until I was so addicted to heroin that I had to do heroin in order to just be normal. I couldn't do any drugs. I could sorta do heroin, but the only reason is because I got hooked on it. I could do heroin and I could still play drums, and it was gut pain. Anyone that wasn't me and knew better than everyone else would think I was flawless. Let me get rid of this person who's calling on our only telephone. Call waiting. It's fun.
(pause)
That's the lady who's repairing our watches. Isn't that exciting.
Your watches?
Yeah. I have a watch someone gave me that was this amazing '70s gold man's watch that's this insanely expensive watch, but apparently it's not fixable. Too bad. So anyway, you were saying?
I think you were saying something. I'll be darned if I can remember what it was.
You could always press rewind.
Ah, no time for that.
Ha! I'm sure it was something brilliant.
You know, you're a really good interviewee. You're a really nice guy!
Well, yeah.
I wasn't sure what to expect.
Don't tell anyone.
Okay. I'll tell them, "This guy was such an asshole!"
Yeah yeah, there you go.
Where did you hunt down Lorna Doom? What was she doing?
Pat got ahold of her somehow.
Oh okay. What did you think about his Foo Fighters experience?
Well, I was hanging out with him when he was in Nirvana. I went and saw them at the Forum.
How were they?
They were great. I thought it was the perfect melding of The Melvins, The Germs and The Beatles.
What did you see of The Germs in them? I see The Melvins and Beatles, but -- just the melodies?
-- totally in there.
What's that?
The Germs were totally in there. In fact, until I thought about it and thought it was The Melvins, I thought it was The Germs at first. The Germs and The Beatles.
Really?
Yeah. That's where I thought he totally got it.
Hmm. What? What, what, what in -- what's your -- because I know he loved The Germs and I know he would agree -- by he, I mean Kurt Cobain --
Yeah, he did. That was like his favorite thing.
But when I think of The Germs, I think of Pat's really trebly guitar.
No, but our songs -- they were good songs.
They were great songs.
They were melodic. They kicked ass. They were glitter rock. They were anarchy glitter rock! You know? Totally hardcore glitter is what we did. We took glitter and fuckin' made it undeniable. Ha! We made it into some other thing that was undeniable. Whatever it ended up being, I guess it's done. But it sounds kinda like Bowie's "Spiders From Mars" and the Runaways to me.
The Germs record doesn't sound like any other punk record, except for the speed.
No. No, it doesn't. To me, it sounds a lot like -- well, the drummers I, in case anyone cares about my nerdy drum influences --
Of course!
I would say what I was going for was -- well, they were bands you might not have heard of but I'll say them anyway, Van Der Graaf Generator being the main one.
Wait! Are you a fan of Van Der Graaf Generator?
Fan? Yeah! Heh heh.
Are you involved with -- have you been in touch with the guy who's writing a book about them?
No, but I'd love to be.
OH! See, this is -- this is what -- this is what the world's all about. A guy e-mailed me the other day because I interviewed one of the Dead Milkmen.
Did you read the thing in Mojo about Van Der Graaf Generator?
No.
Really good. Really good. Look for that issue.
Okay. But this guy e-mailed me saying --
The Dead Milkmen guy.
Aww, I gotta remember to -- yeah! And he e-mails me and says, "Hey! I saw in your interview that this guy is a Van Der Graaf Generator fan. Do you know anyone else that I could spe -- I heard that uh, I heard that Mark E. Smith is a big Van Der Graaf Generator fan --"
You know what's really funny? This is really funny too!
I'm gonna give him -- Can I give him your phone number?
Give him my number, yeah. But two of my favorite drummers at that time were the guy in Van Der Graaf Generator, the guy from Yes, Bill Bruford --
Aw, I love Yes.
-- the guy from King Crimson, McDonald -- so those three guys: Bill Bruford, who was later a King Crimson drummer, I loved Bill Bruford, I loved the guy from Van Der Graaf Generator, and I loved the -- whatsisname McDonald. Michael McDonald [Ian McDonald]? And I loved the guy from the first Fall album. That was the other guy.
       And Aynsley Dunbar was the other guy. He was on Lou Reed's Berlin and then he was on Diamond Dogs from Bowie, and he was on "Mothers Live at the Fillmore East." He's a fuckin' great drummer. He was on a lot of the Zappa stuff. He was fast as lightning and could do incredible sycopation -- surprising syncopated fills that were just unfuckingbelievable -- out of nowhere these things would come and they'd kick your ass. I just loved it. He was so powerful and great. Those were my main guys. I liked the guy from Faust too. He was really good.
What'd you say before the guy from The Fall? Because I wanted to ask --
That McDonald guy from King Crimson.
Oh! Okay, okay. 'Cuz you said Michael McDonald and I was like, "The Doobie Brothers?"
No.
Okay. Well, those are all great bands.
-- good.
What's that?
The guy from The Tubes was good too.
I don't, I, you know, I remember "She's A Beauty" and I've heard the first record, but -- yeah, the other ones you named, def -- I mean, I don't know much about drummers, but I know enough about drummers to know that those guys did some amazing stuff.
Yeah, well that was quality shit. That was the stuff I was into. And Peter Gabriel, believe it or not! No, not Peter Gabriel; Phil Collins.
He used to be good?
When he was in Genesis, he was amazing. When he was the drummer. Yeah, he was incredible. You had to kinda see him to tell.
He's not a very good singer.
What's that?
He's not a very good singer.
Nobody here sounded like r -- like I remember that I was just shocked when Peter Gabriel had left Genesis and then that "Tricks Of The Tail" album comes out and it's like, "That's Peter Gabriel singing, right?" "No, it's Phil Collins." "WHOA!" He was back there watching the guy's butt and learning how to sing!
Yep. God, he's corned out so bad though.
Yep, he sure did.
So who'd you say are the ones you listened to as a kid that you still really love? You'd probably have to say The Beatles, I suppose.
Well yeah, that was the other favorite drummer. Ringo Starr.
Really!?
I'm not sure if I loved Ringo Starr more or George Martin. You know what I mean? Who knows whether Ringo Starr's drumming sounded great because of Ringo Starr or because of George Martin making him do stuff?
Well, I suppose you probably wanna go get that drink that you should've gotten an hour ago.
I don't really drink alcohol that much. It's not for me. I don't know; I'm kinda -- I don't know. I used to be into free drugs, now I'm a little more into the drug-free.
That's probably smart, considering.
Well, I did it all, and I love psychedelics. Any psychedelic thing is cool with me. If you wanna read a good interview with me, there's a magazine that you can probably get from a guy online. It's called "Arcane Candy." "A-R-C-A-N-E Candy." He did this insane interview. It's 22 pages. It's really amazing. It's almost the whole thing. It's really good.
About psychedelics?
About psychedelic music, psychedelic things. I do some pretty psychedelic things, you know.
Like what?
For one, my radio shows are intensely psychedelic and surreal, and I'm good at it because I've been doing it since I was a kid. So I know what I'm doing. I may be a worthless piece of shit in a million ways, but I put together one hell of a radio show.
Ha ha! What a nice thing you just said about yourself.
Ha ha! Hold on a second.
Ha ha! Sure.
(long pause)
Hi!
Hey! Who was that you were talking to? Darcy?
Oh, I was talking to Dame Darcy on the other line.
Dame Darcy was on the other line?
She was.
I'm, I'm really good friends with an ex-ex-boyfriend of hers.
Which one?
Brandan Kearney.
Yeah! I'm really good friends with him too. Where is that motherfucker?
He moved back to -- he's somewhere in California.
Yeah? You don't have his number?
Umm...
I need to get in touch with that guy. I'd love to -- you know what you can do? You can give him my number.
Okay, I'll do that! Yeah, he's --
How is that guy? I haven't talked to him in years.
Okay, yeah! I'll definitely give him your number.
Yeah?
I don't have his phone number in front of me. I e-mail him a lot though.
I don't want to bother him out of nowhere. I'll let him phone me.
What's Dame Darcy up to? I saw her "Greatest Hits" CD.
She's doing some pretty cool things. She just did a thing called "Gasoline." She does stuff for our club sometimes. Everyone does, though. Boyd Rice is gonna come play our club, I think.
I've only read negative things about him.
Well, that's because he does a thing called Non, and he's a high priest in the Church of Satan, and he goes around espousing a sort of vaguely Naziistic philosophy.
Oh, okay! That might be why!
Everybody reads lots of negative things about him, and I guess it's okay with him too, huh? Heh heh heh!
Jeez. But he's, he's uhh...
He likes being a little bit controversial, that sort of thing. He's a really nice guy. He's one of the nicest people you could ever meet, and one of the smartest. One of the most original thinkers too.
Really?
Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's amazing. I would hope that if Armageddon occurs and there are only like five people left, that Boyd is one of them.
Were you ever involved with Anton Lavey or any of those people?
No, but I have done stuff with Boyd Rice -- Non.
Oh, you've worked with Non?
Yeah, I recorded some of Boyd's records back in the old days. Actually, we had a group of people called the Associated Skull bands, which included Non, .45 Grave, Monitor -- who were amazing. A very underappreciated, wonderful thing. They were also a publishing empire, with collage books that were fucking incredible. Less elaborate than whatsisname umm...
Say again? More elaborate than who?
Who was that guy, Winston --
Oh, Winston Smith.
Yeah, it was more elaborate than his stuff.
George Orwell.
Uh-huh. More elaborate than his, I mean less elaborate than his stuff, but just as good and with no political agenda.
You a big fan of Jello Biafra? Be honest now!
He's got a great record collection. And he's really funny.
Yeah. You know what he did though? You know what he did to me?
No.
He refused to let me interview him.
Really?
Because he'd seen my interviews with Klaus Flouride and East Bay Ray where I took their side.
Oh, right. Yeah, well?
I WROTE THIS LONG APOLOGY THOUGH!
Uhh, well. Apologizing -- you know how that goes. Maybe --
I shouldn't have taken their side.
Well, maybe you should have, and you shouldn't have apologized. Heh heh!
I've heard bad things about him.
Well, he never did anything bad to me, so I don't know. But I'll tell you --
I'm a huge fan of his work! I just have heard bad things about him.
I'm a fan of his work in certain ways. I'll tell you -- I'm glad he's there. Because there's a lot of people who really need him. They need him to tell 'em what's going on! And for that I'm totally glad.
He changed MY life when I was a teenager!
I'm sure he did. You know, if I wasn't already past all the college dude politics by then, I would have been really worshipping his ass. Compared to The Germs, it was a different world. And San Francisco was not where The Germs did well, because we proudly espoused these weird, crypto-fascist doctrines. Really cryptic. I mean, racism and all that -- no one was about that. We all loved off-color humor, and sometimes off-color humor involved colored people. And of course, anything that was wrong was much more funny than things that weren't! We just saw it that way; I'm sorry.
It is true. I agree with that.
I mean, it's like how many great, hilarious Christian comedians have there ever been?
Very good point.
So it's pretty much -- we were having fun and we really didn't give a fuck what anyone thought about the fun we were having. You know? They could have their fun if they wanted it.
Sounds like you're still having fun.
I'm having a blast.
Sounds like you've had a good life.
Well, hopefully it's not over yet.
No no, I mean so far.
So far, it's been great. And it's been the best the last year or so. It's been really incredible.
What's been going on?
It just keeps getting better. I don't know. I finally learned how to play drums and bass, and now I'm learning how to play guitar.
Playing "Ecstacy To Frenzy"!
Yeah! I learned that. For my birthday, I put together this band and we played ELO's "10538 Overture" with a string section and French horns.
That's ridiculous!
It was incredible. Just seeing that live in a small club by people that you would not expect to do that? And then having it be fuckin' picture perfect and loud and majestic?
Can you imagine how much all those skinhead Germs fans would love to see that?
I hope there aren't any skinhead Germs fans. You know what? Skinheads look good on some people. As a style, I think it's interesting in a way, and I've written about the skinhead style, and I understand skinheads. Even though I never did before, I understand them now and I think that that is an interesting aberration that you can sympathize with the people who've fallen into it as being people who really desperately want to be part of something heroic. And I can really relate to -- well, I don't know if I can relate to being part of something. Ha! It's more fun to be something that everyone will then maybe try to be part of than to try to fit yourself into something that's almost like --
Yeah.
It's a tough world for individuals.
It is, especially when you're young, where a lot of these people -- when you're young, you really need people to hang out with.
The Germs were awesome. It was an incredible time. The time was defined, but The Germs was an experience. Anyone that was touched by it or even came close to it, it affected them very, very much. It was like you could transcend reality for five bucks.
Did you think that he [Darby] really was gonna kill himself?
Oh yeah!
Really?
Pretty much. And then I stopped thinking that when it had been a couple of years and he hadn't. But he did say, you know -- it's all in the book, you know, all that stuff. That's kinda why I wrote the book -- so I would never have to go through all this again.
It's a great book. It's definitely --
It's a good book. And the second edition will hopefully be better. The thing that might not be that great about it and that might be a little bit misleading is the Darby quotes. Because a lot of the Darby quotes are from one interview that was done by Search And Destroy magazine in San Francisco. But they didn't run it because it talked about fascism in a positive way. And it wasn't anything that -- I don't know. I don't need to get into it I'm sure, but I don't know -- we didn't have time to be racists or fascists, because we were.... Yeah, we were racist; we were against the HUMAN race.
He really liked feeling the power though. I mean, anyone would. He had the power over certain --
He had that, but it wasn't -- He had that early on and he cultivated it, and he tested it, but I think he didn't have to want it to use it. He was IT. He had IT -- what they call IT. He had total charisma like a Jesus or a demagogue, but he was like an infant with a swastika armband.
Did you ever get a Germs burn?
No, I didn't. I have given one though. I questioned my authority to do that, but Pat Smear cleared it up. He said, "You were in The Germs, right?" "Yeah." "Then you can give Germs burns." Ha! The first one I gave was to a 17-year-old girl.
Good, good. Keep 'em up.
Yeah! She was excited. She just sat there, and I was like, "I feel weird doing this!"
Ah, my 90-minute tape is up.
Well, if you wanna call back, give me a little while to do stuff. I gave you an edited version of my life, but you can call back if you want to.
That's all right. What I'll do is -- I'll type it all up, then I'll send it to ya. Wait, do you have a -- you must have an e-mail address, I guess.
Sure.
What's that? I won't put it in here.
It's sparkle666 -- Sparkle is the thing I do now -- the main thing. And it's incredible -- it's radio, film and strobe light, and big, big wattage. I'm very happy with it. And a big PA. It's great for late night people who like psychedelic trips.
Nice!
Yeah, it's totally mindblowing. Sonic Boom from the Spacemen Three told me it was "psychedelic torture."
He saw you?
Yep. You can get a record actually of a radio show that I did. It's available on the Internet.
Oh, it is?
Yeah, it's good. It's called --
(tape ends)

August 19, 2004.

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