Interview with John Doe of X

Punk original John Doe talks about his career in music and continues doing his own thing with a new blues record and appearances in high-profile T.V. and film productions.

By Mark Prindle

John Doe was the singer, bassist and leader of Los Angeles’s delightful X back in the '70s and ‘80s, and is now an actor and singer/songwriter with four solo albums to his name. If you’re unfamiliar with X, it would behoove you to pick up the double-CD compilation Beyond And Back: The X Anthology before the end of the day. It’s SUCH a wonderful record.

But let’s speak of the present day now, as the past carries nothing but pain and lies. John was kind enough to agree to an interview, and then kind enough to not be home when I called. Then he was kind enough to reschedule the interview, and kind enough to AGAIN not be home when I called. Finally he was kind enough to call me, apologize (a celebrity apologized to ME! ME!!!!!!!!), and reschedule a third time. As the famous Foghat song says, “Third Time Lucky.”

John was actually home this time, and not only was he home, but he was nicer than all hell! People, John Doe is really friendly. Just a supernice, easygoing, down-to-earth human being. Not like those stuck-up pricks in Madonna. So I spoke with Mr. Doe for a good hour-plus on January 9th and got the lowdown on the hoedown.

My questions appear in my trademark “Bold”™ print. I’m not sure which brand of ink John was using.

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John?

Yo.

Hey, this is Mark Prindle.

Hey.

Hey. Do you have time now?

Yeah, yeah. You know what? Just let me switch phones. Hold on.

Okay.

(*time passes like a fruit fly*)

Hello?

Hey.

Hey.

So you mentioned you're working on an album? Is it a new John Doe album or something else?

Uh-huh. I guess I've got the energy to go through the cycle one more time.

Are you still driven to write?

Yep.

As much as you were when you were younger?

Oh, that's hard to say. You have to be equally inspired. But there's a lot more personally uncharted territory when you're like 25 than when you're 50.

What kind of issues are you writing about this time around?

I'm actually writing a blues record, of all odd things. I'm trying to get back something a little simpler and that's what it came out to be. It's not like -- it's not Texas Flood. There's no like extended solos. I'm not a big fan of solos anyway. Guitar solos or any other kind. But that seems to be what's going on. I stick to the lyrical form where the first line is repeated, and the changes are 1-4-5, and they're a little shorter.

Do you have "the blues"?

Ha! No, I just have been a big admirer, I think. And then I hear stuff like the White Stripes and I think, "That guy doesn't know what the blues is." I mean, he does. He does a good job at it. I don't wanna put him down. There's a lot worse bands.

Do you like that band at all?

Sure. Actually I like the record that had a couple of traditional songs on it. I think it was two before this last one.

Oh okay. I haven't heard that one.

It wasn't the one where there were all those sort of paparazzi --

That's the one I have.

It was the one before that. It had a Robert Johnson song on it, and it had "St. James Infirmary," I think. Anyway, it's an art form that I've always been a fan of, as long as it doesn't get really long. I hate that stuff. If a blues song is over three and a half minutes, it's not a blues song to me.

Ha!

It isn't! It should be -- they're concise. That's what's beautiful about them, the same way that a good Neil Young song has all these things that are alluded to and inferred, but he doesn't actually spell it out. I like that kind of mystery.

Speaking of which, what is happening at the end of "Powderfinger"? Did he shoot himself?

I don't know. I don't know.

That's been bugging me for years. So blues for you would be the original type, Delta blues type stuff?

Yeah, I like that.

More so than that electric blues stuff that's just solos and goes on and on and on.

Well you know, the funny thing is that the Chicago blues stuff, when it first started out, was great. And then it became more and more indulgent. I remember when I was like 16, I got a Vanguard double Chicago blues record called Chicago Blues: Volume Two. Then I got Volume One, and it had all those usual suspects -- Buddy Guy and Junior Wells. It didn't have Lightning Hopkins or Muddy Waters on it. It was all sort of Chess and Vanguard blues. And they didn't play all those long solos. It was pretty much like the older blues.

Did you like what the British white bands did with it in the '60s?

Sure. I think I probably got into it from them.

Yeah, I think most people these days do.

You'd get the Rolling Stones record where they did "Mona" or something like that. And you'd be "Who is this Diddley character?" and you find out that it's Bo Diddley.

For me it was Led Zeppelin and "Hey! Who's this Robert Johnson character they're always talking about?"

"Who's this Robert Johnson they're always stealing from and not talking about?"

Exactly! I must have read somewhere that they stole his stuff, because you're right; they never credited him for anything.

I think it's hilarious that they would say, "Oh well, all those blues guys stole from each other." There's a big difference between someone in the '20s and '30s stealing from a guy that's put out two race records and some fairly privileged white English fucker selling zillions of records.

So who's playing on the record with you?

Let's see -- this one's a little more drums, a little more bass, a little more electric guitar. I haven't gotten all of my guest stars sorted out yet, but the drummer and bass player I've worked with before. Stuart Johnson, who played on the Freedom Is… record, and Dave Carpenter, who played on Dim Stars, Bright Sky. And then my MVP, Jamie Muhoberac, who played piano on that album. And Neko Case said she would be on it. And I think Dave Alvin is gonna play guitar on some of it. He and I have never done a solo thing together. And who else? Smokey Hormel's gonna play on it. He most recently played on that album by Johnny Cash.

The newest one? The one that just came out?

Right. Smokey and I played together for years when he lived in Los Angeles. He moved to New York, he played with Beck and Tom Waits and Sean Lennon, and most recently he had this really cool band called Smokey and Miho, which was Brazilian. Very strange thing; they did this record of Brazilian songs by a guy named Baden Powell. So here's Smokey from L.A. and Miho from Cibo Matto doing '60s Brazilian stuff. But he's totally into it.

Gil Gilberto? Is he Brazilian? (note: I of course meant "Gilberto Gil." Of course I did!)

I think so, yeah.

I have a friend who's really into him. Os Mutantes? Are they Brazilian?

I don't know.

How well do your solo records sell? Do they all sell about the same amount?

Oh, I don't know. I haven't -- yeah.

Or how do you pick up new fans? Is it by touring?

Umm….

Or people coming to you from X?

Well, that's the majority of it. And I guess some people are introduced to my music through the movies that I do. I tour when I can, when I can afford it. When I can get some decent gigs put together. I guess I toured probably three or four months on the last record. But I have a family, and I have to be in town to do auditions and things like that, so I don't tour like Mike Watt or some of the other crazy road dogs. Dave Alvin tours incessantly. Not that I don't like it; it's like an extended state of adolescence.

How many auditions? Is it regularly going auditions?

Depending on….

Whether it's pilot season or --

Yeah.

What kind of stuff do you have coming up?

Actually I don't have anything that I've finished coming out. I've been working on a couple of free movies, one short…. You know, you pretty much, in my situation, and I think a lot of actors' situations, you pretty much go in on any audition that you think you can do something with.

What's your favorite acting work that you've done?

I like some of the stuff I did in Roswell, oddly enough. Because even though it's sort of limiting in the style or the range that you can use, because it's for television, you still have a lot of other different opportunities to express different emotions. More regular, you know? Especially in feature films -- you're lucky if you have two scenes to actually develop your character. Also I probably have -- I think I still have a part in that movie Torque that's coming out.

I don't know about that. What's that?

It's a movie with Ice Cube and a bunch of other people and motorcycles all over the place.

What's your role?

A country sheriff. I get to play the Jackie Gleason character.

Oooh! Is it a comic character or an evil racist?

Nah. A little bit, a little bit. I don't know. I have no idea what it looks like now. I may be totally cut out of it. I know they had some problems with the ending. A lot of stunts that they couldn't afford to pull off. What a surprise.

Are you still doing any of the X reunion shows? Are they still happening?

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Do you still yourself enjoy doing those? Or is it kind of like, "Well, I need to bring in some money."

Oh no!

You still get a kick out of it?

I wouldn't do it if I didn't enjoy it. I mean, the money is nice, but it's not hundreds of thousands of dollars, that's for sure. Maybe if you added up a whole year's worth. And we play about 20-some shows a year. We did quite a bit last summer. We did a trip to the East Coast, although we didn't play New York City. Figure that one out.

Yeah, not a big market here.

Heh. No, there aren't very many people there that go to see music. I don't know. It wasn't the right offer or something. We played there and we played through the Midwest and the South. Then we played just before Thanksgiving here in L.A.

Do you stick to like the first four albums? Or do you play stuff from everything?

The first four records. Because that's what people really identify X with, and we're sort of not really a nostalgia band, but it's kind of like -- I personally do it more for the audience. You know, the people who didn't see us but want to. And we're still good! (pause) That was lame.

Ha!

But we want it to be fun for all those people. And we have a great time.

Also I know that there were a ton of really positive reviews for See How We Are. Is there any interest in that line-up of the band getting back together for a few shows? Or have you ever done that?

No. No, we haven't really. People really want to see Billy Zoom, and I can understand that. We actually do Knitters shows though, so we get a chance to play with Dave Alvin. Yeah, some people were first introduced to X through See How We Are, and then went back to the punk stuff. I think the most original material we did was on our first two or three records.

What were your feelings about Ain't Love Grand?

I thought they were really good songs, but it was the wrong production.

The production is really godawful on that record. They really did a number on you guys.

Yeah. Well, we had done four records at that point with Ray. Ray Manzarek. And we figured, "Well --" You know, each one was supposed to be "Oh, this is the one," so you start believing whatever they're telling you. And then you think, "Well, maybe we don't know what's good for us," and you release the reins of control. And I kinda liked the big sound of the hair bands.

Ha!

Not the songs! The songs were terrible, the singing was godawful, but you know, that big sound.

That big anthemic, anth-, anthemic?

Yeah. And actually it was a little bit preceding the harder rock, faster hard rock stuff. It was more like rock and roll bands that were using that sort of production. But a lot of people really liked it. It was the best selling X record.

Was it?

Oh yeah.

Did that video get played a lot? "Burning Hou-"

Oh yeah. You know, the songs were very personal; it was about Exene's and my breakup. But it's too bad the production sorta keeps that hidden -- all the reverb and tricks. Michael Wagner is a good producer for certain things, but he had a very defined formula. On that record, everything was just demoed to the nines. I mean, every beat, every note pretty much. And then there's very little spontaneity, very little being involved kinda, especially for the rhythm tracks.

At the time, was there a backlash from your core audience?

Oh yeah.

Oh yeah?

Oh yeah.

Did they come back for See How We Are?

It's hard to say.

But you got a new audience for See How We Are, right?

Yeah, I don't know. It was some of the same, some of the -- I don't know. I don't really keep track of that stuff.

But when you were looking at the crowd, was it the same exact people every time?

Exactly. I think it's really, really important for a songwriter, a singer, an artist -- if you want to go that far, to calling what we do art -- not to think about the demographics and not to think about who the audience is. And to really try to do your thing intuitively, because once you start thinking about it, you'll probably screw things up and not dig as deep and do things for the wrong reasons.

Or you're just gonna repeat yourself but with no passion.

I have to say that I think about who might listen or what people might want to hear from me, or what X was. And I purposely didn't try to piss people off or be difficult to listen to. I know there are some bands that purposely try to be obtuse, and try to alienate or be evasive with their music. But we never tried to play hard-to-get, you know.

Speaking of the production of Ain't Love Grand, the effect it had on my listening to it -- which was years later obviously; not obviously, but I was younger at the time -- was when the box set thing came out -- the greatest hits, was it two discs? I think. Beyond and Back. I was amazed that "Burning House Of Love" was such a good song! It never sounded good to me the way it was mixed, but in the version on Beyond And Back it sounded great.

Yeah.

Made me kinda want to hear the whole album that way.

Well, we tried to do some remixes. That was the only record that I actually wanted to try to remix a couple, for the reasons that I told you. And then we tried to do it again for the Rhino reissue, but unfortunately the medium, or the recording machine tape and the things that we used for that record of course are so outdated to the point that it would cost a fortune to remix it.

Oh. Man, that compilation is amazing. Just non-stop great song after -- It really hits home how many amazing songs you've written on that -- There's no weak songs at all on there! It just goes and goes and goes.

I'm sure you could find plenty of people who would say there's plenty of weak songs, but thanks for the kind words. And I'll share that compliment with Exene when I talk to her.

Okay. What was the feeling when you went back to do Hey Zeus!? What did that come out of?

It came out of a really positive climate for music, what with all the bands out of Seattle, and all kinds of crazy shit getting played on the radio, and us getting an offer to make more music. And we had continued to play -- Tony, Exene and I, and DJ [Don, X's drummer]. We took a break for maybe two years after the live record -- Live at the Whiskey. So that's where it came out of.

And I think the only difficulty with that, again, was production. Unfortunately, the guy who produced it had never heard or seen X live, which was a gigantic, huge oversight on our part. And then, after we finished the record, we played at KROQ, which is the big radio station out here. We played some function, and he came back after we played and he said, "Oh my God. I had no idea!"

Oops!

Heh heh. You know, I like some of the production on that, you know? I thought it was pretty forward-looking.

I didn't see anything wrong with it.

But it proved to me that people want X a certain way. They didn't want to hear X being adventurous; they wanted to hear X playing punk rock. And I don't fault them.

I'd say I really love about half of the songs on there.

Yeah.

"Someone's Watching" is great. "Lettuce And Vodka" I like a lot. I wasn't sure what to expect. It's a pretty good record though.

There are some that are stinkers, but that happens.

I saw on your web site the movies you admitted to being in, and I noticed that The Decline of Western Civilization wasn't one of the movies you admitted to being in. Was that an oversight? Or do you have bad feelings about that movie?

No, I don't have bad feelings about it. It had a very specific agenda, and I don't think that it's a true representation of the punk scene in L.A. at the time. But that was how Penelope Spheeris got the movie made. She said, "I'm gonna do a lurid sort of sensational punk rock movie." I didn't purposely leave it off. I just feel that that's not acting really. I also didn't list The Unheard Music, I don't think.

I think you might have listed that one, which was why I wasn't sure.

Oh. No, I think it's alright.

What was the scene actually like?

Pardon?

What was the scene actually like? Was there less of the violence?

Oh, way less. And the bands that were purposely omitted were I think more of the interesting and eclectic bands rather than what has come to be known as punk rock.

CONTINUED ...

Interview with John Doe of X
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